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Post by LIONS90045 on Mar 12, 2014 22:15:06 GMT -5
golions - Waldrop was a great shooter in his senior season averaging over 20 ppg if I'm right. Nice comment.
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Post by thx4leavinjimlynam on Mar 26, 2014 1:40:59 GMT -5
Wasn't sure what thread to use, but I went with this one, hoping that Dunlap's offense will be different than Max's.
Fun With Numbers
Everyone railed on Max Good's "dribble the ball for 30 seconds and then try to make something happen" offense. Did LMU really not share the ball like other teams or was it a figment of our imagination?
With the season over for all WCC teams, I did a little digging and decided to compare each WCC team's field goals made versus assists. While inexact (ie a good pass can lead to a blown lay up or a fouled shot attempt that doesn't result in an assist), at least we can draw a numerical fact by comparing a year's worth of data versus the other teams in the conference.
The results of FG Made divided by Assist equals Assist Percentage Team Assist Percentage POR .583 (58.3 percent of their baskets came from an assist) USF .556 PEP .554 GON .540 BYU .538 SMC .525 SCU .511 PAC .5051 USD .5050 LMU .482 (838 field goals made, 404 assists)
To see if this was an anomaly, I ran the numbers from the previous year (2012-13). Once again, LMU was last, and was once again the only team under 50% (LMU had 745 field goals, 362 assists for a .486 assist percentage).
Since we finished last each of the past two years, this didn't completely shock me. I went back one more year, to the 2011-12 team that finished in fourth place in WCC play and 21-13 overall. Yet again, not only was LMU last in assist percentage, we were also the only team under 50% in assist percentage (LMU was at .490).
I suppose this is a long-winded, but factually proven, way to say LMU did not share the ball well the past three years. We all knew that, but to be the only team under 50% for three consecutive years…that does seem pretty brutal.
I am sure Dunlap will run a sophisticated offense and change this statistic for next year. Looking forward to the season. Go Lions!
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Post by uncurselmu on Mar 26, 2014 11:11:49 GMT -5
Wasn't sure what thread to use, but I went with this one, hoping that Dunlap's offense will be different than Max's. Fun With Numbers Everyone railed on Max Good's "dribble the ball for 30 seconds and then try to make something happen" offense. Did LMU really not share the ball like other teams or was it a figment of our imagination? With the season over for all WCC teams, I did a little digging and decided to compare each WCC team's field goals made versus assists. While inexact (ie a good pass can lead to a blown lay up or a fouled shot attempt that doesn't result in an assist), at least we can draw a numerical fact by comparing a year's worth of data versus the other teams in the conference. The results of FG Made divided by Assist equals Assist Percentage Team Assist Percentage POR .583 (58.3 percent of their baskets came from an assist) USF .556 PEP .554 GON .540 BYU .538 SMC .525 SCU .511 PAC .5051 USD .5050 LMU .482 (838 field goals made, 404 assists) To see if this was an anomaly, I ran the numbers from the previous year (2012-13). Once again, LMU was last, and was once again the only team under 50% (LMU had 745 field goals, 362 assists for a .486 assist percentage). Since we finished last each of the past two years, this didn't completely shock me. I went back one more year, to the 2011-12 team that finished in fourth place in WCC play and 21-13 overall. Yet again, not only was LMU last in assist percentage, we were also the only team under 50% in assist percentage (LMU was at .490). I suppose this is a long-winded, but factually proven, way to say LMU did not share the ball well the past three years. We all knew that, but to be the only team under 50% for three consecutive years…that does seem pretty brutal. I am sure Dunlap will run a sophisticated offense and change this statistic for next year. Looking forward to the season. Go Lions! Amazing stuff, thanks for doing that. I think you're dead on, but I don't know if our teams were so much unwilling to share the ball as they were incapable of running an offense where we created open looks. AI, Viney, Hamilton were all pretty unselfish players and our teams did move the ball around quite a bit. Unfortunately we moved the ball without a real purpose and that is what is illustrated by your stats. We moved the ball simply for the sake of moving the ball, but when it came time to get a bucket we were usually forced into tough looks. I think I'm pretty much saying what you are, but I just think to Max's credit we have to acknowledge that he did emphasize sharing the ball (although with little purpose).
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Post by pumpfake on Mar 26, 2014 11:41:49 GMT -5
I would take it a step further and say that I think we moved the ball decently AND we actually got our share of decent looks but we were just terrible shooters. If you want to put this on Max, my take is that he was remiss in not recruiting more (any!)pure shooters. The fact that we lacked shooters (and an inside post up threat) also allowed defenses to cheat because they really didn't have to worry about anyone consistently hitting from outside. Our offense was mostly about penatrate and dish out of necessity and because we had two guys (AI and Evan) who had the ability to take their man off the dribble. You shoot the ball well from outside, the game is much easier and you put a lot more pressure on the defense.
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Post by thx4leavinjimlynam on Mar 26, 2014 12:28:44 GMT -5
I agree with both of you. And I should have noted that I found Max's offense, while unconventional, somewhat entertaining to the degree that opposing coach's would complain that we were very difficult to prepare for. And, to note, when AI would drive and dish and we DID hit our jump shots, that made us extremely difficult to guard.
As mentioned, however, we didn't have a lot of pure jump shooters.
I thought it was interesting not only that we were last in assist percentage all three years, but that everyone else was above 50%. Unconventional is fun for awhile, and I was actually on the fence whether or not to let Max go, and noted that I would have rather had Corey Gaines take over. However, after letting the hire sink in, I am 100 percent behind Dunlap.
I am excited to see what Dunlap can do with our team. As mentioned in another thread, Dunlap will stress pushing the ball up-court with the pass. If that leads to more open looks, then the players won't be constricted to a structured offense for all 40 minutes. But it seems clear the players will need to adjust to some set plays, which I welcome.
Go Lions!
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Post by LIONS90045 on Mar 26, 2014 20:25:50 GMT -5
thx - nice analysis - no wonder we were losing. A small caveat is that the shooter has to finish for the assister to get credit for an assist and I think our teams have been weak in this regard. Nonetheless, "the facts speak for themselves."
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Post by uncurselmu on Mar 27, 2014 12:15:44 GMT -5
While it is true that Max's offense would have worked better with outside shooting, you can't help but wonder why in his five years he NEVER recruited a single pure shooter. Honestly the fact that we looked good when we hit our outside shots means little to me, EVERY SINGLE offense looks better when you're hitting your outside shots.
Look at the lakers, Dantoni's offense has looked much better this year with a slew of outside shooters, but even last year you could still see them CREATING good looks (we rarely got them). Even when he did have a pure shooter for 3 years (viney) he never adjusted to Viney getting routinely double teamed in his last two years. Max had a pure shooter and we ended up playing the same exact offense.
Either way, I'm excited about the room for growth. Simply having Egbeyemi back next year gives us a nice corner three and a streaky threat (who hopefully will be consistent).
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Post by thx4leavinjimlynam on Apr 23, 2014 14:34:15 GMT -5
I know longtimelionfan mentioned the LMU Magazine article a week or so ago, but I found a link to the article itself magazine.lmu.edu/archive/2014/dunlap-s-long-road-gersten-pavilionI dropped the note onto this thread since it mentions my favorite thing: share the ball In addition, I like what Dunlap says about eating, weights, LAX proximity for international players, and tailoring his style to the players (not shoe-horning his style upon them). I have a good feeling about next year.
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Post by uncurselmu on Apr 23, 2014 21:22:04 GMT -5
I know longtimelionfan mentioned the LMU Magazine article a week or so ago, but I found a link to the article itself magazine.lmu.edu/archive/2014/dunlap-s-long-road-gersten-pavilionI dropped the note onto this thread since it mentions my favorite thing: share the ball In addition, I like what Dunlap says about eating, weights, LAX proximity for international players, and tailoring his style to the players (not shoe-horning his style upon them). I have a good feeling about next year. A few more interesting nuggets: -"Some things have been done poorly here and we have to change that, one day at a time. I know that sounds trite, but it’s the truth." -"The big thing is the pick-and-roll game. I think we can help this program offensively and defensively with that." Thank you thank you thank you. Been begging for this for years and years. I can't wait to see Evan Payne and Gabe Levin form a pick and roll monster.
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Post by pumpfake on Apr 25, 2014 16:49:12 GMT -5
For those of you who follow @coachmikedunlap on twitter, what do you think of his tweets? I find them to be empty platitudes that certainly don't resonate with me and sure don't seem to be the type of thing that would resonate with a player or recruit. Who is he trying to reach? Hopefully, behind the scenes, he's making hay, but for now, these tweets are all we have and I am concerned. I really want to be wrong here. Not rooting agains the guy - just looking for some postive signs.
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Post by LIONS90045 on Apr 25, 2014 20:54:07 GMT -5
pumpfake - you motivated me to do something I really don't usually - look at my "twitter" account. Most stuff on twitter is simply noise in my opinion (I'm over 60) but I found Dunlap's postings OK. It seems many coaches have their stock phrases, including Max, whose were a bit more time-tested but also unsurprising. I'm giving Coach Dunlap an OK on his twitter postings.
I also noted in the process that Devin Watson visited LMU on Apr 24 (Thurs) with his mom - you can see their photo if you follow the twitter leads on Dunlap's account. Perhaps, he is not a lock for Saint Mary's after all?
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Post by uncurselmu on Apr 26, 2014 2:40:40 GMT -5
For those of you who follow @coachmikedunlap on twitter, what do you think of his tweets? I find them to be empty platitudes that certainly don't resonate with me and sure don't seem to be the type of thing that would resonate with a player or recruit. Who is he trying to reach? Hopefully, behind the scenes, he's making hay, but for now, these tweets are all we have and I am concerned. I really want to be wrong here. Not rooting agains the guy - just looking for some postive signs. I kind of feel you. While the quotes aren't meaningless, very little personality, and a lot of preaching seem to come through. I personally don't care for twitter too much so it's nothing big to me but it almost seems like he's still auditioning for a coaching job instead of just opening up a bit. The NBA playoffs have been insane and even just a little commentary would be welcome. Instead it seems to be the same general stuff.
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Post by lmu09 on Apr 30, 2014 0:59:37 GMT -5
you guys cant actually be serious about critiquing his tweets?... this is a joke right?
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Post by fryer4three on Apr 30, 2014 11:36:11 GMT -5
Youre mistaken if you think Max Good ever tweeted anything....
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Post by slblions08 on Apr 30, 2014 16:00:27 GMT -5
Considering that Dunlap basically has a coaching side business with videos and blogging etc, his tweets basically follow that up.
As for the ridiculousness of his his Tweets being a problem, I put this side-by-side with another poster who argued about Max Good's license plates. Everybody has their own agenda. GoLionsGo hated Good, and Pumpfake was an obvious supporter, so it just comes with the territory.
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