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Post by longtimelionfan on May 9, 2014 0:16:25 GMT -5
While certainly disappointing, aussielion is correct, Gabe's departure certainly doesn't justify the doom and gloom being expressed. Gabe was an excellent freshman player but his forte - rebounding - is a skill that should be more than compensated for with Godwin's return and the additions of Patson, the reported new stretch 4 (fryer4three & the recruiter) and Humphries. Moreover, I think we all expect Dunlap's team to be better defenders and rebounders overall. Indeed, I wonder whether Gabe's knowledge that a bigger stretch 4 is coming contributed to his decision. Gabe was an excellent young player and I wish he hadn't left. But, he was not irreplacable; he was a nice piece. He was not a future WCC Player of the Year.
According to Jeff Goodman's list more than 400 Division 1 players are transferring. it is like all the players that leave early for the draft, multiple times more than the number of actual draft spots. It is now, unfortunately, part of the culture. As one commenter sarcastically noted, we were in last place last year with Gabe, so let's have some perspective and, more important, some patience. Let Dunlap assemble his team and play some games before you project a bottom finish. I note that the recruiter in another thread labeled next year's team as a "legitthreat." He is projecting too but his signing predictions have been correct and his reasoning is rational not emotional. Let's sit back and have fun watching what happens.
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Post by slblions08 on May 9, 2014 1:02:04 GMT -5
I think this Canarias Basketball Academy connection isn't necessarily a Dunlap thing, considering Ashley Hamilton played there before, and one guy, Thomas Van Der Mars is now playing on Portland. If we can get a bunch of 2 star guys that basically back-up any high major prospects they have, I guess that's alright when looking for role players. Those role players might be better than most of our role players before, which would lend to trying to make the roster deeper. Just don't expect game changers to knock off Gonzaga or BYU consistently until Dunlap recruits real 3 or even a 4 star prospect.
I guess what bothers me, is that Dunlap is not hitting any homeruns. Bill Bayno walked in and changed the program for 4 years after just 4 months on the job based on players flocking to be coached by him based on his NBA credentials and access. Young, Viney, Teel, Davis were all aboard, and Jared decided to stay home. Not 1 one of these guys sees something in Dunlap? I mean, if Payne leaves, then that's going to set the program back at least 3-4 years.
Dunlap walked in and scared almost the whole team away--literally. Let's be real. Dunlap doesn't seem like a guy for everybody and is probably not the most fun. His calling card has to be his experience. If that's not selling, then he's going to have to hit non-America consistently to be competitive. That's good and all, but locally we're losing a ton of connections. It also seems like another poster who mentioned that Patrick Sandle was fired because of recruiting might be right. I thought he was a very, very poor-man's Kevin Ollie. He's more like Ollie -2.0. (Tony Bland, Jason Hart, Reggie Theus and the many others who badly wanted this job...we'll hold a place for you one day!)
Sorry guys, I'm just frustrated at yet more lost players and missed opportunities. I had high hopes for this season!
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Post by therecruiter on May 9, 2014 7:37:29 GMT -5
Wow, I must say that since joining this forum and reading some of the posts here, I was impressed with the knowledge and positive attitude of the fan base. This thread however surprises me. What you must understand is that with any change of coach (especially one such as Dunlap from Good) there are going to be expectations that differ. This brings a huge transition and a cultural change of discipline and philosophy. Many times, a rebuild is just that, and after meeting and analyzing players ect, if the coach and player don't think they can work well together, they must part. Lions fans, I must say you really are unsure about what you have here and you will soon learn that a full season and a full recruiting season will show such huge results on and off the court. LMU is about to surprise even the biggest fans amongst you. A guarantee is that they are in the top two or three teams within three seasons if not earlier. (And for whoever doesnt like the Euro guys, you soon will when you win, and a win is just that.....a win). I do most of my scouting for D1 schools in Europe/Asia/Africa/Australia.
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Post by therecruiter on May 9, 2014 7:43:53 GMT -5
One more thing of note (slblions08), Remember, any coach needs a full recruiting season to get '4-star' athletes, not weeks. What Dunlap knows and most don't is that a certain type of player can win with the right attitude, so he takes them and makes them play at the 4 start level until he gets the pieces he needs. Believe that!
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Post by therecruiter on May 9, 2014 8:00:17 GMT -5
I thought it might be interesting to throw this in.
Coach Dunlap was the head coach of the Charlotte Bobcats for the 2012-2013 season, becoming the first coach in NBA history to win three-times as many games as the year before. During that season, the Bobcats set franchise records for the most fast break points and the least number of turnovers per game. Before arriving in Charlotte, Coach spent six years as an assistant coach in the professional and college ranks. Prior to his work as an assistant, he spent nine seasons as the head coach at Metropolitan State College in Denver, leading his teams to a pair of Division II National Championships in 2000 and 2002 and earning NABC Division II Coach of the Year honors in both of those seasons. Coach Dunlap, whose teams went to the NCAA Tournament in each of his nine seasons, posted an overall record of 248-50 (.832), winning five Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference titles.
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Post by longtimelionfan on May 9, 2014 9:17:14 GMT -5
recruiter,
Thank you for your insight and views. You are a great addition to the board particularly since you are actually in the college basketball business and have an informed opinion on coaches, players and prospects that we, as fans, do not. And, since I expect and hope that Dunlap consistent with his track record will continue to recruit nationally and internationally, your special knowledge of international recruits and prospects is invaluable. As is apparent and you've clearly observed, some (but not all) of us here think we know more than professionals and love to rush to conclusions and judgments based upon scant information, rumor, innuendo and tea leaf reading from social media. But the bottom line is that ALL of us are here are offering our opinions and insights because we care about LMU basketball. So please continue to share your knowledge, insight and opinions as they are much appreciated.
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Post by lionsroar on May 9, 2014 9:26:29 GMT -5
Bobcats had 7 wins when Dunlap took over- then they had 21- then he got fired after one season. Dunlap has certainly has a distinguished coaching resume but his time as nba head coach isn't really impressive.
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Post by Mr. LMU '04 on May 9, 2014 9:42:47 GMT -5
And Dunlap was fired from the Wizards because he did not get along with the players.
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Post by ALioninWinter on May 9, 2014 10:18:46 GMT -5
Recruiter - the Lions' fans that are in this board are expressing strong concerns because all any of them have known is frustration, disappointment and far more defeats than victories. I'm not sure if any of them have been around long enough to remember the glory days under Westhead. Most of us were ready for a coaching change but we're as nervous as young brides. We've seen a string of failed coaching changes and are going to be quick to assume the worst as events unfold.
A few fans still rue Good 's dismissal but most of us are strongly behind Dunlap. We are anxious to see him succeed ... and, for the most part, have confidence that he will succeed.
Losing guys like Stewart, Levin (possibly others?) are tough pills to swallow since we've had so little to look forward to. We don't have a lot of insight into the new recruits and are nervously awaiting some evidence of what they can do.
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Post by lionsroar on May 9, 2014 11:12:12 GMT -5
To expand upon our glorious basketball history...since 1990 (24 season) LMU has only had four winning seasons:
95-96 Olive 18-11 03-04 Aggers 15-14 09-10 Good 18-16 11-12 Good 21-13
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Post by therecruiter on May 9, 2014 15:37:00 GMT -5
Hi all
By no means am I trying to belittle others passion or knowledge of the game as fans often have just as much! I was simply trying to elude to the fact that you guys have a great college coach.
Working with pro's is a different kettle if fish to college players as you are well aware, so I would say (only my opinion) that you should not be concerned in coach Dunlap's interactions with the pro players in the locker room. Sometimes all NBA coaches wish that they would be as hungry and ego balanced as many of the college kids. It's a hard pill to swallow when your players are all pro's who often believe they know more.
Another question I'd pose is, how many more wins do you believe Phil Jackson would have achieved with the Bobcats the same year? Either way Dunlap was not fired because of the win loss ratio, more so his expectations of pro's didn't collate well with them. He didn't quite master is a few months the balance of pro Vs discipline.
I'm actually excited for your team and I will definitely fly in to watch some games and maybe try and meet up and have a chat with you guys.
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Post by fryer4three on May 9, 2014 15:39:48 GMT -5
recruiter--- do we have anyone else signed besides P.H...?
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Post by LIONS90045 on May 9, 2014 21:54:48 GMT -5
Can other schools recruit players from a college team that has changed coaches? I understand colleges cannot continue to recruit a player who has "signed" with a team out of high or prep school In essence my question is could Levin have been lured away or did he initiate his leaving? And can teams "recruit" from other teams - cherry pick so to speak - even without a coaching change?
TheRecruiter (or another knowledgeable one) you may be able to help me understand the protocols here.
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Post by lionsroar on May 9, 2014 23:13:26 GMT -5
Coaching changes usually means open season but in Levin he was not lured away.
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Post by lmu09 on May 9, 2014 23:29:39 GMT -5
Even if the coach is fired, a player cannot legally talk to other schools unless he is given permission to by his current school. However it happens all the time, its probable that a former coach of Levin's was gathering interest after Good was fired. Expect Levin to sign with another school pretty quickly.
On the subject of grading Dunlap's coaching resume, I personally am impressed by it. You don't become an NBA head coach without being a superb coach. The NBA is highest level of basketball in the world, you can't grade a coach's resume based on one bad season with the worst team in the league. Dunlap was a high major assistant for years, and brings the high major attitude. That is exactly what LMU needs to succeed, a high major coach who will bring this fine institution to it's fullest potential, something all of us have been waiting years for to happen.
I am also a fan of the recruiting Dunlap has done so far with the 2014 class. There is not much talent left out there, leaving the international and JUCO pools to really be the only good options. Losing out on Jackie Davis or Devin Watson is not a bad thing. There is a reason why these guys are still available. I was never a fan of Kyron Cartwright, and this international PG we picked up looks much more promising. The 2015 class should be slightly better, with the 2016 class being Dunlap's first real recruiting class he was able to recruit from the beginning. I am looking forward to the new direction this program is headed.
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