Gonzaga Envy, Lowering Standards

[titanczar]

A very interesting story in a SD paper.

The most interesting part to me:

"Comparing Holland with Grier is premature and probably unfair. Grier, a former assistant at Gonzaga, won the WCC Tournament and went two games deep in the NCAA Tournament in his debut season at USD, but he did it with a roster almost exclusively recruited by Holland.

And the programs themselves may be apples and oranges, with Grier seemingly afforded a bigger budget and lower academic requirements. Two of Grier's original three recruits who were offered scholarships for this season failed to qualify academically. His top recruit from last season, guard Trumaine Johnson, has been suspended most of this season."


www.signonsandiego.com/sports/usd/20081218-9999-1s18holland.html


If USD lowered academic standards and those guys still couldn't get into school, what does that say abou they type of player he's recruiting?

[ironlions]

Remember we also recruited Romaric Lasme who didn't qualify academically. Man could we use him now.

[crazycagegirl]

There was a time when Pepperdine had players with criminal records on their team.



Oh. Ha. Yeah.



And then there's Josh Heytvelt, who earned a criminal record while AT Gonzaga, and their academic program was still able to overlook it.



Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm still utterly disgusted with Gonzaga for that.

[zagsfanforlife]

Josh has payed a very big price for it. His reputation has been tarnished. Everytime Josh heyfelt is mentioned the arrest is also mentioned. Teenagers/ young adults make mistakes. It happens all over the country. He was suspended for the arrest and did many hours of community service, in addition to earning the respect back from his teammates. Plus he has to listen to heckling fans such as yourself crazycagegirl that will not let something that happened two years ago go. Get over it. The kid has earned his degree, has worked hard in the classroom, and has been a leader on the team so far this year. If you watched any Gonzaga games this year you would see it is Heytfelt that helps the younger players more than anyone. Believe it or not he has matured greatly since he arrived at Gonzaga. Give the kid a break.

[crazycagegirl]

Continuing to give someone a full ride scholarship from a Jesuit University after he has committed a felony does not demonstrate the values of that Jesuit institution, as these players are expected to do. If it were a state university, I wouldn't be so surprised.

That is why fans will not let up on it. Heytvelt was not the only one. If I recall correctly, Bouldin was with him as well?

You can't expect fans to give up on something when a player makes himself such an easy target. This is what crazy fans do - they find ways to get in the heads of the players. One of the greatest pictures I've seen is one where Adam Morrison is looking at and (I think) pointing at my sister's boyfriend, who is standing up and yelling directly at him. I wish I still had that photo because it was a classic moment.

[zagsfanforlife]

And Morrison still had 40 points in one of the greatest exhibitions of scoring in Gersten Pavillion History

[phurther]

I agree with Zagsfan on this one. Come on now, give these kids a break...that's what they are: kids. They're not getting paid and while sometimes the heckling is fun, it oftentimes gets overboard. I personally regret that I did some heckling in my day...it's pretty ridiculous when you think about it. And yes I remember when Morrison pointed at that d-bagger in the crowd...and I think this was the same dude that ran up to the side of the court and gave Morrison the finger after the game.
And actually, Crazycagegirl, I would say that allowing a player who messed up to have a chance to redeem himself is EXACTLY within the teachings of a Jesuit University.

[Deleted]

Problem is phurther how many students do you think get caught with drugs at Gonzaga and get shown the door permanently? I bet you a few each year. It is a real lack of class and integrity on the Zags part to play the "we are compassionate Jesuits" song and dance when hanging on to Heytvelt. They've gone from scrappy wholesome mid major to the same whatever basketball factory. At the end of the day compassion was not the reason and we all know it. He plays basketball, he was the supposed second coming, they covered their eyes and gave him a little slap. It is what it is.

[zagsfanforlife]

Duke,
I will not argue with your point about Gonzaga acting like a basketball factory in this circumstance. I would almost agree with that point. The Zags were most fun to watch when they were the scrappy underdogs running the flex offense, using bruising big men and excellent guards to defeat their opponents. I wish Few would start recruiting more that way then relying on how many stars a high schooler has next to his name. Gonzaga in the Heytfelt case did what every other basketball powerhouse would have done to their star player when in trouble with the law. For instance, AJ Price from Uconn is still on the team, and one of their key contributors. Price stole multiple laptops from other students and then went on to sell them online. The school suspended Heytfelt as did Uconn suspend Price. But the kid needs to be given the benefit of the doubt. He was 20 years old when it happened. And i am sure many of you did some things you werent too proud of when you were 20 as well. Josh has to live with that every day of his life. It will affect his NBA status and currently affects his reputation whenever mentioning his name. He did his community service and had to re-earn the trust of many of his players and coaches. And that part was not easy. I can tell you this much: over his years at Gonzaga Heyfelt has matured immensely. He is night and day a better teammate and person today then he was in his sophomore year. He is supposedly a loving dad, great teammate, and has earned his degree already.

[phurther]

Yeah, you're totally correct in your assumption that he received special treatment. I was merely doing a little "other side of the coin" thinking there! But to all the hecklers out there, I would say move on and come up with something new to yell at the guy...unless you're the type that is still telling Judge Ito jokes...

But moving on...Duke also makes a good point in that GU has become a "basketball factory": the school and the town may still be small, but the program is elite and has for the past few years taken on some other characteristics of elite programs...not all of which are necessarily good.

[t]

CCG
The other cat/bulldog in the taillight less SUV, with Josh, was the Canadian Theo Davis. Not being a worldly man myself, when I am told drug use is required in Canada I believe it. Perplexing and hypocritical as worldwide drug laws are Theo may have been unaware of neighboring USA controlled substance controls. He only had a tinie-tiny (I'm holding my thumb and middle finger centimeters apart) amount of marijuana in his pocket and charges were dismissed following some community service (pack some brown bag lunches for the half-way house on the corner, leaving out the muffins).

Theo now plays B-ball at Binghamton University in upstate New York, where, certainly he is aware of the two juxtaposed nation’s differing legalities concerning plants and fungi.

Indeed I managed to catch a few minutes of the Binghamton-Stony Brook match this evening on the satellite. Binghamton U. prevailed but Theo was a DNP.

If you stood around long enough in one place, in Eastern Washington, wouldn’t a psilocybin laden fungus start to grow on you before the next bus arrived, or for that matter prior to the Eastern Washington University police arriving to ticket you for zero light emitting from your taillight?


Duke
So, the LMU Jesuit’s compassion for Bill Bayno’s admitted alcohol and substance abuse past transgressions are legitimate but the Gonzaga Jesuit’s compassion shown to Heytvelt for possession of a controlled substance are a cynical maneuver?

[crazycagegirl]

i'm going to throw this out there - no, that wasn't the same guy who ran along the side of the court flipping them off. He wouldn't do that. And what gives you any right to call him a d-bagger? That's cutting it pretty low on someone you don't even know. I haven't even called Morrison or Heytvelt the names i would loveeeeeeeeee to call them. Keep it classy.

[Deleted]

t, you equate a known and very much avoidable felony charge with a well documented medical illness? Huh? Is that like saying LMU should accept arsonists because they also have bulimics in attendance. The fact is that Josh was given a free pass and has to deal with that. It's great he's matured but the zags kept him around for all the wrong reasons you can't sugar coat it.

[lionspride]

Jan 6, 2009 4:29:40 GMT -5 t said:

Duke
So, the LMU Jesuit’s compassion for Bill Bayno’s admitted alcohol and substance abuse past transgressions are legitimate but the Gonzaga Jesuit’s compassion shown to Heytvelt for possession of a controlled substance are a cynical maneuver?

t:

I somewhat agree and disagree with your argument. LMU providing Bill Bayno a second chance after he had displayed discipline from his past transgressions over the last five years with the Phillippanes Basketball Association, the CBA, and at the NBA is legitimate. 5 years is enough to give someone a second chance. However, if Billy Bayno has slipped again and any of this LOA situation is connected....I think it is very prudent for the University to cut the cord. I sure hope Husak is not pulling a Few-like compassion. Mr. LMU'04 always throws that Jesuit compassion around like it is unconditional. If that is the case, then why is it every year that LMU expells some students for some violation? Where is the Jesuit compassion with those situations. LMU throwing out Jesuit compassion for the Billy Bayno situation is simply OUT OF CONVENIENCE. I do not respect people who take the CONVENIENT ROAD in life.

The Zags should have cut the cord on Josh and let him find his own way.

[lmutex]

For one, Bayno never broke the law. Not once did he receive a PI, or a DUI. So that situation has less to do with legal concerns than it does with whether or not he can handle a D-1 gig during recovery. As for Heytfelt, it seems that he turned his life around, so what's the big deal? It would seem that Jesuit compassion worked out.

And I'm sure that the majority of expelled students at LMU were given second chances. They were just too stupid/didn't care to get with the program.

Bottom line, take a sample of 12 LMU/Gonzaga/students, and think about how many would have a alcohol or drug infractions. I'm guessing it'd be north of zero.

Then maybe the question should be: why are we holding these teams to a higher standard than we hold our institutions?