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Post by waterboy on Nov 19, 2009 2:52:37 GMT -5
Based on the Montana tournament I expected the team to keep getting better. But tonight I saw a huge step back. Larry had an unbelievably bad night and the team simply was not in sinc with each other. The Coachs do bear some responsibility. Their first half substitution allowed our 3d team to play long enough for the Anteaters to erase a 14 point lead before half. I can appreciate giving experience in the preseason to the younger guys, but it also showed less than a killer instinct on the coaches part, as well. I have to say that I'm disappointed.
The question now is whether the team will rebound and fight like it did last year and get back to the top, or whether it will collapse and lose the next several games because it can't figure out how to win. Its time to man up! I know Max is not going to sit idly by, so players get ready for some tough practices.
Viney was a shining star and Vernon is getting better with each game. Garibay will be great one day. Davis has to shake it off and get back to fundamental team ball. Still too much individual play and sleeping on the job. Defense has to get tougher or this will be another long season. « Last Edit: Today at 11:49pm by waterboy » Link to Post
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Post by thx4leavinjimlynam on Nov 19, 2009 2:55:52 GMT -5
UCI scored 60, yes 60, points in the final 24-plus minutes. That is pathetic.
I agree the 12-man rotation in the first half, while nice to get players some action, just destroyed the rhythm that had been developed.
We have absolutely no idea how to win a game. We should have been up by 15-20 by halftime. We weren't, they start the second half 9-0, and it was game on. If it wasn't for our good free-throw shooting (what a waste to have that in a loss) we would have lost by 10-15 points. And if Davis isn't scoring, he almost shouldn't be on the court. We have other guys that can play defense and rebound if Davis' shot isn't falling.
What's done is done. My biggest fear, though, goes back to not knowing how to win. Even though we were playing a lousy second half, we needed to figure out how to win tonight. If we lose to USC and Tulsa and are 1-5, I hope our confidence doesn't become shattered. If we can win just one close game, hopefully that will be all it takes for this talented team to take off and show the promise we all see in it. Go Lions!
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Post by irishlion on Nov 19, 2009 6:40:07 GMT -5
I cant friggin sleep. Damn.
A couple of thoughts from this one that are eating at my brain. 8 man rotation. Period. If its a blowout, go beyond that. But until the blowout is confirmed - 8 men. Actually, I like 7 man even better.
Luckily we have been scoring 70-80 points a game. Because our defense can't stop my grandma from scoring. We have yet to stop a single post player from owning the paint. And the three point shooters have way too much daylight. Toughen the heck up in the paint, and get your rotations down on the shooters. We aren't mature enough or consistent enough to believe we can trade baskets. We have to get stops.
Can we friggin rebound a ball? Box out? Our guards are leading the team in boards. Seriously? Add that to the lack of interior defense, and I'm leaning to running a 7 man all guard rotation. Geez guys. God gave you all that height, and ridiculous wing span. Board a ball.
Hello - your stud has 28 points. So lets freeze him out from 6:40 to 1:40 in the second half. It was bad enough taking him out of the first half for that extended period. But no excuse - none - for not getting him touches for five solid minutes late in the game. Quit the "get mine" attitude, and just "get the win". If Viney is scoring - get the damn assist. Geez.
It was a great start to the game. Kevin was solid, Viney was studly - We were dominating. And then we played friggin 4th grade rec ball --- player participation rules. Everyone gets to play. We weren't up 25 in the first. This game was not in lock down. I know its early in the season, but if you want to get looks at players, can we do it one at a time. There was a rotation at one point that had me in serious cardiac arrest. All kids, or 4 kids and one player. No offense meant towards the kids at all. They haven't had the opportunity to prove themselves yet - and that's ok. But to do it for that long, with that many on the floor - well heck, what did you expect. So much for a great start.
Damn.
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Post by dclem on Nov 19, 2009 11:56:33 GMT -5
Ok,
I'm frustrated. We have the great savior in Seton Hall transfer, Oregon Transfer, Veal that played last year plus great recruits. What's the problem.
Subbing last night reminded me of the UCR game when Tention was on board the team was blowing UCR out and he switched all 5 starters with duds and blew the lead.
What gives here.
1 Win against Hope, is that all we can mustard out.
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Post by ironlions on Nov 19, 2009 12:35:12 GMT -5
The Lions performances at the Montana tournament really had me thinking we would be able to soundly beat Irvine. Last night was certainly a wake up call on some problems we need to remedy if we want to win any games. We really need to have a defensive intensity and toughness every game. We cannot expect to win many games with the type of defensive effort that we displayed last night. You always want to progressing, but with the youth we have we can expect to steps backward. The good thing is we have a lot of talent, and you can't teach a player talent. Being close to the program and the players my expectations are always high. I realized that it’s a steady progress and still have a lot of work to do. All this being said, we should have won that game last night. The substations at the toward end of the first half really killed the momentum and the game slowly and painfully slipped away.
Go Lions
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Post by zagsfanforlife on Nov 19, 2009 12:49:07 GMT -5
On the plus side, LMU has a top 5 WCC player in Viney. And hes only a sophomore.
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Post by lion4life on Nov 19, 2009 13:38:14 GMT -5
The team is fine and playing well. We only won three games last year and now must learn how to win. I am happy we have close games and this is the first step. The subs were fine and needed to be made, the UCI bench was used and it help to give rest to the starters. I believe the back up center for them had 14 points and 10 boards. We are moving in the right direction it just takes some time.
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Post by lmu2008 on Nov 19, 2009 14:54:30 GMT -5
My observations from last night... What baffled me the most was Ashley's 3-point attempt... The only capable shooters we have are Larry, Viney and JD. No one else in our 7-8 man rotation should be shooting 3's. I'm pretty sure Ash was benched after that shot and for good reason. Bottom line was that we had better athletes, a decent home crowd, fair refs and a healthy lineup... This "L" falls squarely on the coaches for their unbelievable substitutions. If a guy is hot, leave him in. This isn't Little League, not everyone has to play. I'm still dizzy from last night's carousel ride (or maybe it's the booze I had to drink to cope with the loss)... It's simple, don't put in the guys who don't get the job done. If our freshmen were playing 40 minutes a game last year, Viney should be playing nearly 40 minutes a game as he is our most reliable scorer. The offense should run through Viney every time we run a half-court set. Good things happen when we get that man the ball! Tim is not the same as he used to be, maybe it's rust, we'll see. However, I've been pleasantly surprised with Edgar, did you see that spin move in the paint for a lay-in? Haven't seen anything like that since Matty Knight... Overall we need to stop making excuses for losing. I.E. Learning how to win... You learn to win by scoring more points than the other team, how hard is that to learn? Make buckets, make free throws, get stops. It's not rocket science. We should not be losing to Big West schools, especially at home. Last night was unacceptable, but at least we hit bottom last year, so there's no where to go but up!
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Post by uncurselmu on Nov 19, 2009 15:03:18 GMT -5
Vernon Teel needs to learn how to pick and choose his options. Sometimes when he's decided he's driving, theres no stopping him ( and not always in a good way). theres a long, 35 second shot clock. I know we want to push the tempo but there is nothing wrong with holding onto the ball and resetting your offense.
Overall although offense was hindered by some rotations defense was what really killed us. 2nd chance baskets pushed them over the edge, very disappointing to lose control of the glass like that. I'm hoping coach good varies up the defense a little bit, we need to be able to disrupt the offense even if its only by forcing them into different looks and rebounding the ball. going to a zone wouldnt have helped us at the end of the game on those 3pt baskets but it might have slowed them down enough to give us a chance earlier in the half.
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Post by zagsfanforlife on Nov 19, 2009 15:16:59 GMT -5
lmu2008 you hit it right on the head. Excellent post. LMU needs to learn how to win. Some people need to step up, make plays down the stretch, and get a couple wins under the Lions belt. After that, the rest will be history.
For those of you that were there last night, how was the crowd? DO you believe the tail gating aspect has already helped? I would love to hear about it. Thanks
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Post by ironlions on Nov 19, 2009 15:27:56 GMT -5
This "L" falls squarely on the coaches for their unbelievable substitutions. If a guy is hot, leave him in. This isn't Little League, not everyone has to play. The more I think about the game the more I believe the substitutions was the nucleus of the problem. We should have kept pounding them with our starters with no mercy...maybe when were up by 30 Sweezy, Osborn, Armstead and Give should come in for a while. I have a feeling we will be seeing a 8 man rotation very soon.
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Post by stillalion on Nov 19, 2009 15:41:45 GMT -5
zags:
The most disappointing part of the lose for me was the fact that we had a really great crowd. If the entire game last night was like the first 17 minutes then I think we would have had some fans for life. The entire night felt like a fresh start to LMU basketball. But, then, we collapsed on the court and I felt the energy drain from the crowd. Even though we were basically tied going into the final few minutes - the excitement was just not there.
The bottom of the student side was basically packed. LMU has done a great job with its upgrades. The tailgate certainly looked successful as I walked by it and it seemed that most of those students came to the game - so overall I don't see how that can be seen as anything but a success.
Basically, I think that LMU did a great job making that gym feel bigger and more exciting and more "big time" then I have ever seen. They had smoke going for the player intros - they had rock-n-roll lights - they had TV screens around the venue - they had a huge red lion head projected on the front of Gersten - they had new banners and signs all over the place. It was (for once) a great place to have a basketball game.
I just hope the students give it a 2nd chance. But my fear is we may have lost some future fans last night.
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Post by fanblade on Nov 19, 2009 15:51:49 GMT -5
I fear that too. Technically the night was exceptional for a home opener against a weak team like UCI. The tailgate had a nice crowd and was a great idea with music and food. Gersten was given more bells and whistles that were pretty cool but what a disaster for LMU fans. Hopefully the lions can bounce back soon to regain some of the momentum they really squandered last night. It is a tough cycle. Great fan support will help us succeed but if we are avoiding success (and that is what we did) fans are not going to support.
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Post by zagsfanforlife on Nov 19, 2009 16:12:05 GMT -5
Man that sounds awesome. Fans will always support a winner though, and until that becomes the norm around LMU basketball, I too fear all the smoke, tailgating, big banners, and rock n roll lights alone won't help put fans in the seats.
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Post by irishlion on Nov 19, 2009 16:30:28 GMT -5
"Some people need to step up, make plays down the stretch".... there in lies one of our major problems. The young men seem to think that stepping up to make a play means scoring. And it doesn't. There were long stretches were the wrong guys were attempting the wrong things to get points. Stepping up and making a play means - get a defensive stop. Get a big rebound. Get the ball to the right man at the right time. And we didn't do those three things for too many minutes.
If you are having trouble scoring, your shot isn't falling - step up your defense. Don't keep forcing the shot. There are sooooo many other facets of basketball that players forget about.
We really only have one or two players that take pride out of doing all those other things (Sweezy, anyone?). Most of the team wants their individual points, and highlight moments. Frustrating - but livable, because its immaturity, and the players can grow out of it.
Focus on assists, rebounds and defensive stops. And the scoring will take care of itself.
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