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Post by LIONS90045 on Mar 11, 2015 21:49:40 GMT -5
Iron - thanks for the clarification. I think we all miss coach Good right now. Basketball should be fun.
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Post by husky on Mar 12, 2015 17:26:53 GMT -5
Good was a vulgarian and no doubt wore thin with some players and fans. But commentators were neither hard on Max nor outwardly critical; granted however, they are generally more far more effusive in praising Dunlap. I personally like it when we win and we did have a couple of winning seasons with Max. I simply believe we would have had a better season this year if the change hadn't been made. We all realize, "Rome wasn't built in a day", and all that. Dunlap devotees may expect continued skepticism until he produces something other than a record of too few wins and a roster hemorrhaging talent.
Although, based on his performance this first year, I seriously doubt Dunlap's ability to turn things around, I admit to being fickle and will continue to loudly cheer our team. If things should actually take a turn for the best, I will gladly order up a double ration of crow and wash it down with a gallon of cool aid.
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Post by lioneyes on Mar 12, 2015 17:39:44 GMT -5
Good is gone and we would not have been better off with him still at the helm. Is Dunlap the answer? I don't know too early to tell but he is definitely an improvement just based on perception from commentators and others around basketball circles. Losing Payne hurts us but he never fit Dunlap's system and in the long run will be better for Dunlap's vision. I was not the biggest Max Good fan, but after watching Mike Dunlap coach this entire year, I do believe that we WOULD be better off with Coach Good at the helm. First we would not have had the mass exodus we have had. Gabe Levin, C.J. Blackwell. Nick Stover, Elijah Stewart, Evan Payne, and Patson Siame. Coach Dunlap brought in Joshua Spiers, Simon Kajcovic, Petr Herman,Matt Hayes and David Humphries. Honestly, who would you rather have? I believe Gabe, Evan Elijah, and Patson would still be here if Max was coach. I watched coach Dunlap sit one of the leagues best player way more than he ever should have. It looked as if our illustrious coach had a personal vendetta against Evan, and no coach should ever let that factor into his winning strategy.Coach Good would never had done this, because WINNING was paramount. There were several occasions I watched Coach D stay in a very slow rotating zone until our opponents made so many 3's in a row the game was over. I found this mind boggling. If something isn't working, try something else.. Evan never fit Dunlaps system? All decent coaches are flexible enough to create a system to fit the players he has. Just as Max built his team around Anthony Ireland, It didn't take a basketball genius to see this team should have been built around Evan Payne. (by the way some of the teams showing interest in Evan now are Wisconsin, Wichita Sate, UCLA, and San Diego State). You watched the games this year, and your justification for Dunlap being a good coach is the perception of commentators and others around basketball circles. I can only go by what I saw: a disastrous season and a pathetic showing in the WCC Tournament. You speak of Coach Dunlaps vison.. I think it is blurred. P.S. Are you sure your name was not golionsgo in previous posts
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Post by golions1444 on Mar 12, 2015 17:57:07 GMT -5
You forgot about Cartwright in your post, but anyway...
Of course we would have been better with Good this year and the talent he was bringing in. Payne, Cartwright, Stewart, Levin, etc... Prob looking at at least 4th-6th place team with that talent. We didn't let Good go and hire Dunlap to win this season. With Good maybe we have tons of talent that never get's developed and we never reach out potential and we get out coached and can never make it into the top 4 in the league consistently. We should not quickly forget how ready for a coaching change we were at the end of Good's tenure.
With Dunlap we are trying to build the program into a consistent top 4 WCC team...he's literally cleaning house and starting from scratch...can he do it? I hope so...am i confident...not as much after this season...let's see who else he gets this off season, i expect us to be around 5th-6th in the league next year, if that doesn't happen i don't think Dunlap is the man for the job
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Post by lioneyes on Mar 12, 2015 18:30:49 GMT -5
Thanks golions1444 for making my point even stronger...
As a coach you never want to cut off your "nose" to spite your face.....
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Post by husky on Mar 12, 2015 18:45:16 GMT -5
BTW when are going to be able to gaze in wonder at Dunlap's brilliant "X's and O's" play calling? Guess he has to have just the right players in order to coach effectively.
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Post by LIONS90045 on Mar 12, 2015 20:00:26 GMT -5
lioneyes put it better than my cryptic post expressed. I admit I wasn't Coach Good's biggest fan, but those who say he had bad luck with injuries have a point. And when Good finally had his best team assembled, as noted above, he was let go. At the time, I was OK with that decision given we had a sterling replacement coming in with Dunlap. I expected a recruiting roster on a par with Bayno's first (and only) season where he brought in players that made the team respectable for many years if not champions - Vernon Teel, Jared Dubois, LaRon Armstead, Drew Viney, Kevin Young and Larry Davis, plus Terrel Vinson - an ESPN top 100 recruit who decommitted when Bayno left. I'm not seeing that from Dunlap. Maybe he needed a season to guage the level of play required to be competitive in the WCC; if so, there really isn't any excuse given his time at top colleges and seeing the talent that worked out there. Now it seems he has driven his best players off the team. Plus we lost our final 7 games of the season, two of the final 5 by over 30 points when we should be "peaking." Those loses were and are very disheartening to me. We'll have Dunlap for at least two more seasons and I would love if he can indeed turn things around. Let's see who he can convince to come to LMU and play for him. My observation is that Dunlap somehow takes the fun out of playing basketball and that isn't a recipe for successful recruiting in my opinion.
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Post by golions1444 on Mar 12, 2015 20:03:14 GMT -5
I hear what you're saying Lioneyes and although we may have had a better record with MG and his talent we would not have had a better program for the future. A top 4 finish is nice but would not have gotten us into the NCAA tourney or any kind of recognition this year and Pepperdine can attest to that as they sit in the same place we are as far as postseason play goes. What should've happened is we should've fired Good years ago and let Myke Scholl prove himself. All those guys are Scholl's guys with the exception of Anthony. Dunlap is trying to change everything from bench configuration to the position Husak likes to take it in the rear so it doesn't surprise me if he's trying to get MG's guys out. It may sound idiotic but that's part of his vision. It may be blurry to you and me and everyone else but Apple investors and employees thought the same thing when a kook named Steve Jobs came up with the idea of an iPhone. You're frustrated, I'm frustrated we as fans are all frustrated and the truth of the matter is until LMU makes basketball a priority we will continue to have these years of futility. If it wasn't for us getting lucky and landing Hank and Bo I don't think LMU basketball would even exist today. Instead of trying to fire our new coach or lament on our old one we should be focusing on finding a president that understands how successful basketball programs can lift an entire university aka the Flutie Effect. My favorite example is Butler University: Two studies estimated that television, print, and online news coverage of Butler University's men's basketball team's 2010 and 2011 appearances in the NCAA tournament championship game resulted in additional publicity for the university worth about $1.2 billion. In an example of the "Flutie Effect", applications rose by 41% after the 2010 appearance. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flutie_Effect A lot of good comments here, and one hilarious one!! Dunlap will either be like steve jobs, alan turing, Don haskins.....everyone will think he is a crazy idiot until we win the conference in 3 years....or he will be fired in 5 years for being stubborn, controlling, and egotistical. one or the other..no in between
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Post by thx4leavinjimlynam on Mar 12, 2015 20:08:56 GMT -5
UN LV only has seven scholarship players available for their Mountain West tournament game tonight. Sound familiar? Max must have really, really bad luck.
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Post by husky on Mar 12, 2015 20:20:31 GMT -5
I think most of us miss the talent far more than the coach. Wasn't the talent recruited toward the end of Good's tenure largely attributed to a new assistant coach ? I'm too lazy to look him up but I recall he was an older guy coming to us from Colorado. I'm the talking about Lavin, Payne, Cartwright, Stewart, and Wyatt scores. I attributed Deji, Godwin, and Siame more to Scholl. I always heard Scholl was popular with the players.
But don't worry nobody's going to fire such a great coach; afraid we are in it for the long haul.
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Post by LIONS90045 on Mar 12, 2015 20:32:12 GMT -5
Husky - you are thinking of Tommy Abramato (spelling questionable). He seemed to endear himself to the local high schools to find many of our best recruits.
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Post by fanblade on Mar 12, 2015 23:08:16 GMT -5
Has anyone mentioned the time that Coach Good choked one of our best players, whom subsequently transferred after that season. It hurts to lose a player of Payne's caliber but we'll move on.
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Post by LMUpepbander on Mar 12, 2015 23:22:29 GMT -5
Has anyone mentioned the time that Coach Good choked one of our best players, whom subsequently transferred after that season. It hurts to lose a player of Payne's caliber but we'll move on. As a matter of fact, I think that was the only real national press that we got in the Good regime. I even remember it getting its own segment on Around the Horn.
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Post by ironlion on Mar 13, 2015 1:28:00 GMT -5
Here is some recruiting background.
Gabe was recruited by Good. Good use to coach against Gabe's prep school coach in the Nepsac
Stewart- Abetamarco found him and Good offered first time he watched him.
Cartwright- Good recruited first then him and Abetamarco worked hard to get commitment
Evan Payne- Good recruited
In regards to Kevin he left because of academic reasons. He had to go to Barstow Community College for a year before he could go back into D1. Kevin loved LMU but the academics were just too hard. He would come to LMU in summers to play pick up after he transferred.
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Lion-O
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Post by Lion-O on Mar 14, 2015 19:19:44 GMT -5
Couple of articles in west coast convo and Loyolan about this too.
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