pdine
Waves Fan 
Posts: 42
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Post by pdine on Jan 18, 2008 0:38:39 GMT -5
I certainly don't condone the allegations. My post was intended for those who are happy for our program being in this situation.
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Post by lionspride on Jan 18, 2008 2:07:13 GMT -5
The writer of the article throws alot of questions out there. One thing is for certain, the recent coaching turnovers in the WCC imply that these universities are not happy finishing 2, 3, 4, etc. They are serious about winning and winning quickly. A quality program is not built overnight, but I think these university have a short leash on these coaches. If you do not show potential to turnaround a program within 2 years, you lost your chance.
Don't be fooled. Universities' may be "non-profit" organizations, but they are run like businesses. Universities need any dollar they can and at some schools, athletics brings in a considerable amount of money. Donations get you only so far. For smaller WCC schools like Gonzaga, a full house to 15+ home games brings in a considerable amount of ticket revenue. Besides, winning sports programs put a smaller university on the map and provides it the exposure it needs.
I hope LMU is taking notice that other WCC basketball programs are analyzing and making informed and prompt decisions if they see their program not progressing. They are recognizing and admitting to poor coaching hires, but at the same time trying to correct for the future. I have to give Pepperdine some credit with this. When they recognized a problem, they dealt with it (or are dealing with it). Sure Pepperdine/USF are getting hit with bad press, but it is better to deal with it now and move on instead of letting a coach stay on longer when he has not shown the potential you thought he had when hiring him. Being conservative and going with the "average/safe bet" coach will get a you a steady 4th or 5th finish in conference year in year out. If you are satisfied with that, then go the conservative route when hiring coaches. Pepperdine/USF took risks to win by not being conservative and hiring these coaches. It did not work out this time, but I give them credit for trying and looking forward for their programs.
Pepperdine/USF and the WCC will survive this.
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Post by lmu on Jan 18, 2008 2:45:37 GMT -5
again, i have no idea what you are talking about, lionspride. A known devil is always better than an unknown. How has USF's situation been improved since Evan's departure? Sutton's win total still at 798 the last time I check. The same goes for pepperdine, they were a mid-wcc team before today, now they are almost a dead-lock for 8th place finish. Making quick decision has no value. It's making quick CORRECT decision that will earn you success. By saying LMU should take notice, are you advocating for firing of Coach Tention? Sorry but I have to interpret it this way. You seem to suggest we stuck too long with RT  |
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Post by ironlions on Jan 18, 2008 12:14:40 GMT -5
Let's stay classy Lions fans.
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Post by lionspride on Jan 18, 2008 12:49:14 GMT -5
again, i have no idea what you are talking about, lionspride. A known devil is always better than an unknown. How has USF's situation been improved since Evan's departure? Sutton's win total still at 798 the last time I check. The same goes for pepperdine, they were a mid-wcc team before today, now they are almost a dead-lock for 8th place finish. Making quick decision has no value. It's making quick CORRECT decision that will earn you success. By saying LMU should take notice, are you advocating for firing of Coach Tention? Sorry but I have to interpret it this way. You seem to suggest we stuck too long with RT lmu: Sutton is an interim head coach for USF. Pepperdine and USF will both get quality coaches for next season. You sure look into my words, lmu. Why, do you feel that we have stuck too long with RT and the potential to turn around our program is not there? Sounds like you are hyper-sensitive to our coaching situation. You must be thinking a change/firing after the season will happen as that is YOUR words and not mine? |
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Post by scoop on Jan 18, 2008 12:51:26 GMT -5
So you think they made the right choice? that just baffles me. They took a shot at a guy who tried to cheat to win in a hurry and now their programs have been shamed and humiliated. I am almost embarrassed to be a lions fan if those are the kinds of tactics we are supporting here. Question... is our basketball program in a better or worse position than pepperdines at this point in time? USF? In my opinion this just proves that it doesnt pay to shortcut. Do things the right way. Neither coach got canned for losing, they got canned for cheating. The two coaches in this league who are winning right now are the two who have been around the longest. a program needs consistency to be successful.
Fire Isaiah Thomas.
Out!
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Post by lionspride on Jan 18, 2008 13:00:40 GMT -5
So you think they made the right choice? that just baffles me. They took a shot at a guy who tried to cheat to win in a hurry and now their programs have been shamed and humiliated. I am almost embarrassed to be a lions fan if those are the kinds of tactics we are supporting here. Question... is our basketball program in a better or worse position than pepperdines at this point in time? USF? In my opinion this just proves that it doesnt pay to shortcut. Do things the right way. Neither coach got canned for losing, they got canned for cheating. The two coaches in this league who are winning right now are the two who have been around the longest. a program needs consistency to be successful. Fire Isaiah Thomas. Out! USF and Pepperdine made the right choices this season by letting the two coaches resign/get fired. By their actions, the programs admit to bad hires. Their programs are moving on to find a better fit. They waited a sufficient amount of time to see the potential and it was not there. That is all that I am saying. Sounds as if some on the board want to have our program stay consisent and therefore consistently have losing seasons as we have had for many consecutive years. We definitely have a consisent Men's Basketball program at LMU. I will not deny that fact. |
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Post by ironlions on Jan 18, 2008 13:28:55 GMT -5
Neither coach got canned for losing, they got canned for cheating.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Evans didn't get cheating on anything. USF has had big academic issues but I wouldn't consider this cheating. I think Evans became a lame duck coach at the beginning of the season when two of his recruits were not admitted. It was only a matter of time before he was given his walking papers. I'm just surprised it happened in the mid season in such a bizarre way.
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Post by lionspride on Jan 18, 2008 13:48:13 GMT -5
I see these athletic department statements and these coaches were allowed to resign. Bottom line is that they were asked to leave. Why were they asked to leave? Some on this board say for cheating violations? Pepperdine self-reported minor incidents to the NCAA and the NCAA were satisfied with their self-reporting and the action they were taking to remediate the problem (i.e., further educating staff about recruit visits, etc.). If these problem were so severe, the university would not have stuck with the coach for this long or the NCAA would have intervened and put sanctions on the programs. It did not happen.
The universities wanted an excuse to fire the coaches. The bottom line is that these programs want to get back their winning ways and move on. Walberg was fired for LOSING and the potential to consistently lose in the future (he displayed no potential to turnaround the program). A 14-35 record does not get it done for any program. The recruits he brought in are not quality enough/didn't have the potential to turnaround the program within the foresee able furture (withn 4 years). THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE.
A distrubing fact is that RT's winning percentage is not that much better over 2 1/2 seasons with the Lions than Walberg's Pepperdine record. RT has even had mature "senior" filled teams in his first two seasons (2 all conference players and Defensive Player of the Year) compared to Walberg having young teams. If I call correctly Walberg's team last season sweep our Lions and RT. I hope RT can turn it around as his 3rd season comes to a close in 7-8 weeks.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2008 16:23:51 GMT -5
Firing coaches midseason is not a smart move. These were forced plays by the admins not some sort of competent strategy. There is no way to tell that USF/PU will get better replacements. Replacing coaches is not as easy as it looks. LMU should know RT is out 20th HC, have we ever had one stay longer than 5 years??
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Post by ironlions on Jan 18, 2008 16:57:39 GMT -5
Firing a coach mid season can be devastating on recruiting. USF has no one recruiting for them right now. Sutton won't be doing any recruiting as he will be gone next year. Pepperdine has recruits signed but who knows if they will stay. McCoy and Tinsley are top recruits and you can bet in this dog eat dog world of college basketball they will be sought after. In a Portland news paper article today, there is a mention that McCoy's HS coach has already recieved calls. In addition, the status of the current players is a big question. Look at what happened when Wahlberg took over, almost the whole team left.
It will be interesting to see how each school go in their hires. Things could get really interesting at the end of the year if St. Mary's Bennet bolts.
We picked a good year to be rebuilding in.
Go Lions
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Post by lionspride on Jan 18, 2008 17:52:16 GMT -5
ironlions:
The rebuilding that you are talking about I believe is from the ground up. You are using "rebuilding", a term from the construction industry. In the "construction business/home building business" we like to work from the top down. What I mean by that is picking a the right contractor to rebuild a house/building. Once you pick a solid builder, you can start rebuilding that property.
In the terms I lay out, I don't know if LMU has even started rebuilding this year? Maybe we are remodeling, but not rebuilding. Maybe rebuilding will commence in earnest after this season wraps up.
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Post by ironlions on Jan 18, 2008 18:19:04 GMT -5
Lions pride:
Thanks for your lesson in semantics. I get the picture your patient for RT is running thin. Let’s see how our non-conference schedule plays out and go from there. IMO RT has this year and next.
Go Lions.
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Post by lionspride on Jan 18, 2008 19:11:12 GMT -5
Willing to go on record, ironlions?
What are your milestones for RT and the Lions next year to have RT continue at the helm? Is it a .500 season in 2008-2009? Or we giving another pass next year as well? What are the key milestones that will determine to extend RT's contract past 2009?
Please provide specifics. Remember, it has been 3 losing season under RT. I don't want to put you on the spot, but I need to gain insight into what it will take to confidence someone like you and others on this board to determine if RT is the "right" or "not right" fit for LMU basketball? When is the line drawn and what is determines the line (measuring stick)?
I am very sincere in my question and would appreciate anyone's response to this. No one on this board ever defines their position to keep RT another year except that "we need to give him more time"? There must be many political science majors on this board as they are great aspiring politicians.....just giving all fluff and no stuff blog positions about giving more time. More time is a very generic line that does not define what you are waiting to see in the next year? Please define milestones on how you are going to make a decision to extend or not extend his contract.
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Post by scoop on Jan 18, 2008 19:40:49 GMT -5
Coaches aren't fired midseason for losing. JE was told to step down or be fired with cause. Why do you think Sutton said they talked to him weeks befor and the AD says JE surprised her with the announcement. Lionspride, when was the last time the team achieved to your expectations? How many coaches ago? And if that number is more than 2 or 3, do you think maybe its something other than the coach? The usf and pepp basketball programs are a national embarrassment right now. We have work to do for sure, but throwing in the towel with a group of freshmen and sophomores seems hasty. Can we give this crew a chance to develop and grow. They probably only figured out the fastest way to uhall yesterday and some are expecting greatness. And as for that senior laden team. It was a missed layup away from the NCAA tourney in year 1, and was likely the #1 or 2 team in the league last year until injuries tear it down. And this is another year with new players in a new system. Take a deep breath and watch a young group grown and get better befor your eyes. Be realistic. Santa Clara ran off the #2 coach in the league last year, and it hasn't helped them yet. Not to say keating isn't going to do a good job, but firing a coach on a whim isn't the answer. Take it from usf and pepp. Do things the right way even if it takes some time.
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