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Post by lionspride on Jan 8, 2008 19:37:03 GMT -5
Guest: STOP making excuses Guest. Coaches can win their own conference (even with dealing with high academic standards). We cannot even compete with DII schools currently. That is not an ACADEMIC STANDARDS problem. There are plenty of quality athletes (academically and athletically) across this country (let alone California) that could qualify academically at LMU, but LMU is NOT getting these athletes. They are losing to the other schools.
Stuff the academic excuse. We demand HIGH QUALITY ACADEMIC ATHLETES. You can win with HIGH QUALITY ACADEMIC ATHLETES (win a national championship is debatable, but you sure could win your conference or at least finish with a .500 record. We are currently 3-13 and have received a spanking from DII schools this year. Cannot deny that....and you cannot through the academic card at with respect to those loses.
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Post by Lion Slum on Jan 8, 2008 19:41:34 GMT -5
Guest,
You are soooo wrong. Name one player on the St. Mary's roster that could not get into LMU. You will not find one....The fact is, they all could, as could most players in the WCC. Not all, but almost all.
The Big West and CSDH are a different story but the WCC goes after good kids with good grades. I know for a fact we have gotten kids into LMU (recently) that could not have gotten in with out being b-ball players. Does that mean they were not good kids. No they were good kids and graduated. We are on a level playing field with the rest of the conference don't kid yourself.
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Post by lionspride on Jan 8, 2008 19:44:28 GMT -5
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Post by Guest on Jan 8, 2008 20:13:20 GMT -5
The fact is that Matty and Dame were better students than Daniel Kickert... that St. Mary's Big that kicked your arse for three years. You you are telling me that St. Mary's is as good of a school as LMU??? C'mon...
WCC... ummm you remember when Pepp had the best talent in the league??? Four years ago... ummm... let's see, Glenn McGown, a HS non-qualifier who got into Pepp because he ended up getting his GED... YOU're telling me that he could have gotten into LMU??
Get real.
Everyone in every conference is on the same field? You're crazy... the big west: UCSB, UCI, UCR, UC Davis all have MUCH HIGHER standards than the fullertons, long beach states, etc. Pac 10: Stanford? or the UC's versus USC (who can get in Prop kids) if you don't know what a prop kid is, look it up. What about the ariz states, oregon states etc. Now schools like UCLA and Stanford overcome academic discrepencies by being able to recruit the top in every class.
Here is the fact:
SCHOOL'S WITH BIGGER POOLS OF PROSPECTS HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF GETTING BETTER PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!
is that incorrect LMU Slum??
It won't effect UCLA cuz they are gettng the best players in the country. It affects LMU because of the 30 other schools recruiting the same types of kids!
How is this difficult to understand? Did you guys go to St. Mary's?
I know the Boise game was a bit of a fluke? But did you know that their starting point guard (whom I'm sure you guys would love to have right now... considering they are 11-3 and you are, well nevermind.) was going to go to LMU but couldn't get in because of academics!
Who's fault is that? the coach's?? NO - Had the restrictions been a little bit lower, maybe like St. Mary's, maybe your team would have a point guard.
You shouldn't be ashamed of losing to Cal State Dom - they have a bunch of D-1 guys who didn't go D-1 because they didn't graduate from JC so technically... their pool of players is WAAAAY bigger.
If Admin wants to win, they can. Admin looked the other way when Hank had a car owned by a booster. If they want to get kids in they can as well.
I'm getting tired of explaining this.........
If a pool of players is bigger, odds are it is better.
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Post by Guest on Jan 8, 2008 20:15:04 GMT -5
Bit of sarcasm in "its ok to lose to CSDH" by the way.
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Post by LMU Alum on Jan 8, 2008 20:21:05 GMT -5
No. I am not saying St. Mary's is as good academically as LMU. LMU is much better.
What I am saying is the entire roster of St. Mary's could get into LMU. That is a fact. Just like most of the kids in the WCC could get into LMU.
This is not a debate over who has the best academics but simply could they get in and is that a limiting factor. I say Nooooo.
Yes Pep had some questionable years but not as much today. I am not comparing us to any other conference just the WCC... Get a clue and stop believing that general admission is the same as athletic admission. All good kids but not the same.
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Post by Guest on Jan 8, 2008 20:52:46 GMT -5
LMU Alum,
I'm not talking about general students. I'm talking about ATHLETES!!!!!!!
I gave you an example of a St. Mary's player who could not have gotten into LMU. Is that not enough? I gave you a pepp kid also.
You have to compare them to other conferences because:
YOU ARE COMPETING WITH THOSE TEAMS FOR PLAYERS!!!
How many times do I have to say that?
The teams with the highest standards for their student-athletes in the WCC:
LMU, Santa Clara, USD, and Portland.
Is it just me or have ALL those four schools fired coaches in the last four years!!!!
You guys remember JP Bautista at Gonzaga?? Went to Junior College in the mid-west and there is no way he had a transcript that could have gotten into LMU. Turiaf. Same.
I don't think LMU could have even gotten those kids had they wanted to, because of what the Zags have built, but i'm just giving you more examples.
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Post by LMU Alum on Jan 8, 2008 21:09:03 GMT -5
Guest,
Kickert could have gotten into LMU. And I am talking About todays roster. Yes, Pepp had some questionable periods and yes I will say you could find a few others that could not get into LMU, but in general 98% of the WCC b-ball players could get into LMU today if we could get them to come play for us. FACT. Yet year in and year out we are in last place or close to it.
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Post by Guest on Jan 8, 2008 21:22:06 GMT -5
When is the last time LMU won?
When they were cheating.
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Post by LMUpepbander on Jan 8, 2008 21:23:10 GMT -5
Here's the main problem I've noticed. In terms of building a rounded athletic department, Lawton and Husak are working backwards. The only sport we offer that can bring in revenue is basketball. Yet, we're allowing our basketball team to completely deteriorate with a lack of commitment from administration, almost in an effort to milk it for everything it's worth to funnel funds to water polo, volleyball, soccer, baseball, softball, etc. The fact of the matter is that no matter how much pride we get from these arguably fringe sports, basketball is the focal point, and we are using it as nothing more than a money grab. Looking around campus, we have the state-of-the-art aquatic center, new softball and baseball stadiums, with the baseball out building being constructed, and the nice boathouse in the marina. Yet, look at Gersten. All of the improvements have been merely aesthetic. A new court, meant to emphasize the switch to crimson as the primary color, that has since been phased back out of the home uniforms. A fancy sound system. Video scoreboards, that, quite frankly, are wasted with cheesy CGI graphics of a basketball with legs jumping into a basket. New seats and bleachers, only on the lower level. New championship banners. NONE of these does anything to help the team! They should have invested the cost of the bleachers into some new weight room equipment, and the sound system into locker room improvements. Nobody gets the fact that a winning basketball program not only brings in money, but actually makes a university known, lifting the "hidden gem" tag. Would Georgetown be where it is without Ewing? Hell, Gonzaga would be some obscure little college in the Palouse without that Elite 8 run, and its administration's understanding of the importance of building the program instead of using it as a piggy bank. I wish our administration would realize this. Until then, we're stuck with mediocrity on a good day. Let's remember, even though we almost made the tourney 2 years ago, we still had an overall losing record, and would have probably been shipped off to Dayton for the play-in game.
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Post by lionspride on Jan 8, 2008 21:34:35 GMT -5
LMU Pepbander: Agree with your comments.  Especially with the comment about not forgetting EVEN IF we did throw down the dunk against the Zags in 2005-2006, we still had a losing record. A compete revised athletics strategy would assist this school BIG TIME. A possible FLUSHING of the A.D. and R.T. may make sense. Board....let's stop wasting time typing responses to the clueless "Guest" and get typing a letter to Lawton. THAT IS THE ANSWER. I encourage students, alumni, supporters of LMU Men's Basketball to send a letter to Lawton. We need to follow up with him on his 2007 convocation comments on having our athletic programs "finish #1 or #2 in conference" every year. For those that don't have the time or creative talent to write an original letter (hand written probably makes the most impact), I would encourage over the next few days that we post a FORM letter for fans to "copy, paste, print, sign, and mail." Let's be professional, express concern, and demand greatness for our Athletics Department. We need a commitment from him and for him to know that we are simply following up on his 2007 convocation comments (can be replayed at i.lmu.edu/main/ under "President Speeches"). Talking Points for letters: MORE FUNDING to the Athletic Department would greatly help. Having the renovation and new offices as a priority on the CAPITAL BUDGET of LMU would assist. Lawton can only make those calls. Emphasis on Men's Basketball. As Men's Basketball goes so does the Allthetic Department revenues. All angles need to be exhausted. Address to: Robert B. Lawton, S.J. President 1 LMU Drive, UH 4844 Los Angeles, CA 90045 Or e-mail: rlawtonsj@lmu.edu Or Call: (310) 338-2775 |
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Post by fanblade on Jan 9, 2008 0:46:53 GMT -5
Great debate guys. I've been away and missed the "suicide watch" this game has caused but wow. It is definitely a time to start brainstorming how we can turn this program around.
I personally understand where "guest" is coming from. It has been known that LMU does hold its academic standards for athletes higher than other WCC schools and of course much higher than MWC, BW, and WAC schools. The thing I feel uncomfortable with is just how "low" do these other schools go? I mean, LMU is not holding out for rhode scholars? What sort of students are these other schools recruiting. And are genuine athletes really that incapable of fulfilling relatively low academic requirements. No matter what sort of "scrapping the barrel" our competitors do I think we can still field a competitive team with good students. USD and SCU haven't been stellar... ever... but have been competitive. We have not recently. I do not understand WHY but I think there are deep-rooted issues since the miracle years of the 90s.
I'm willing to hear anyones input as to why LMU, which I feel biased as it may be has some of the best potential in the WCC continues to struggle. I echo ironlions comments. LMU has the best location, best academics, most beautiful campus etc etc we should not be out recruited by inferior local programs but we are or at least we continue to lose against them. It may be the coaches or the admin, probably both.
I'll keep supporting crimson and navy but hope this million dollar questioned is soon figured out!
And of course I love lionspride's idea of communicating DIRECTLY to Lawton and even Husak. While basketball struggles our other sports are doing well. Let's speak out. I will help in creating a form letter.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2008 18:11:10 GMT -5
We need to invest in the facilities. The weight room, locker rooms, offices are a joke.
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Post by lmu on Jan 10, 2008 4:36:35 GMT -5
There is currently a $14 mil campaign for a new gersten addition, that's the solution to gersten pavillion, a renovation probably just won't do much good.
I don't buy LMU holds the standard higher than others. Just ask any other boards, they will all tell you that their schools hold theirs higher. We just had a long beach fan tried telling us how smart their student-athletes are (check out the long beach thread) so that should be enough to rest this academics baseless excuse already.
Instead of writing to the President I am going to hold the coaching staff and the players responsible for the team performance thus far. Can't blame the President for missed free throw or turnover...if we do that, we might as well write to the board of trustees...i heard they hold the ultimate responsibility of steering this university.
How far do we want to stretch the fact? Fire coach not enough? Fire AD not enough? Write to President not enough? Write to the board not enough? Fire the alum who don't donate? Fire fans who don't show up? How about let's just make sure the coach does his job and the players learn their lessons? Huh? Did that even cross anyone's mind now?
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Post by Guest on Jan 10, 2008 13:06:03 GMT -5
Lmupepbander,
EXACTLY! That's half of what I've been trying to say. (accept I will continue to make the academic argument as well)
I don't know why lionspride or whoever it was that said let's stop responding to what i say when I said exactly what pepbander said in a previous post when i wrote:
at a school where the general student have a nicer weight room than the athletes is that a true commitment to winning?
Lmupepbander you put it much better with more examples!!
That's why when someone earlier wrote about baseball making hoops a laughing stock i cringed considering other sports feel the same way when they get their $$$ from the only revenue producing sport on campus: men's basketball.
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